agoliveira wrote:

For instance, I don't see a reason why re couldn't have a private area for customers where they could download the firmware and upgrade their devices if they have the resources for that but I believe Bruce has his reasons.

So you happen to own the hardware necessary to flash a PIC16F883 at home? You don't seem to realize it's not just a matter of plugging in the USB cable and clicking on "update firmware".

Dupe



Last edited by SouthPaw on Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

jmpage2 wrote:

SouthPaw wrote:

Bruce, Is your plan to return the exact same it2bt with the return or is it an exchange?

He has already explained that the unit will have its firmware upgraded and be sent back to you. You will get the same unit back that you send in.

Receiving, unpacking, opening, flashing, testing, closing, repacking, shipping, is a very cumbersome and slow process. Usually they pack up a number of flashed units ready to be labeled for shipping. Once they receive the units and confirm in good condition they label a prepacked box to be returned to you.

JakiChan wrote:

agoliveira wrote:

For instance, I don't see a reason why re couldn't have a private area for customers where they could download the firmware and upgrade their devices if they have the resources for that but I believe Bruce has his reasons.

So you happen to own the hardware necessary to flash a PIC16F883 at home? You don't seem to realize it's not just a matter of plugging in the USB cable and clicking on "update firmware".

If Bruce provided that file to update the ROM it could allows anyone to produce an ir2bt without his consent.

SouthPaw wrote:

If Bruce provided that file to update the ROM it could allows anyone to produce an ir2bt without his consent.

Well, that too. But think of that would require thinking about business. I was just pointing out to the folks that the data why he can't just offer firmware upgrade software (from a "you can't physically do this" standpoint) is in this thread.

JakiChan wrote:

agoliveira wrote:

For instance, I don't see a reason why re couldn't have a private area for customers where they could download the firmware and upgrade their devices if they have the resources for that but I believe Bruce has his reasons.

So you happen to own the hardware necessary to flash a PIC16F883 at home? You don't seem to realize it's not just a matter of plugging in the USB cable and clicking on "update firmware".

Yes I do. As I said before I'm an electronics engineer and despite I'm a field engineer and software developer as my day job, electronics is a hobby so I have a pretty good idea what would take to reprogram (or program a new one and replace) a PIC like that.

agoliveira wrote:

Yes I do. As I said before I'm an electronics engineer and despite I'm a field engineer and software developer as my day job, electronics is a hobby so I have a pretty good idea what would take to reprogram (or program a new one and replace) a PIC like that.

Great. You and maybe 10 of us out of the current owners can do that. Meanwhile, you could also take the file and make your own IR2BT and sell it for the cost of the hardware without having to have done any of the development.

Yeah, I think Bruce is fine asking us to return it to him to get reflashed.

SouthPaw wrote:

If Bruce provided that file to update the ROM it could allows anyone to produce an ir2bt without his consent.

I don't need to have access to the firmware to reproduce his work if I want to, I could just monitor the IR input and BT output or deduce how the uC communicates with the BT controller (the spec sheets are available) and hack my way from there. This kind of protection just does not work. I believe he wants to have control of some sort, yes, and it's his choice the way he wants to do business. I was just pointing a possible solution. Either way, as I said, I bought mine because I respect Bruce's woirk and think he deserves to be rewarded. Even if he published the whole schematics + source code I would do the same because he deserves that.

agoliveira wrote:

I don't need to have access to the firmware to reproduce his work if I want to, I could just monitor the IR input and BT output or deduce how the uC communicates with the BT controller (the spec sheets are available) and hack my way from there.

Yes, you could. That would be called developing a similar product. I don't know the patent status of things but yes there is noting to stop you from doing so. Feel free to invest your own time doing that. Bruce did, and now I'm happy to pay him for that time. And if part of that means that I have to send the device back to him to get reflashed then I'm good with that.

JakiChan wrote:

Great. You and maybe 10 of us out of the current owners can do that. Meanwhile, you could also take the file and make your own IR2BT and sell it for the cost of the hardware without having to have done any of the development.

Yeah, I think Bruce is fine asking us to return it to him to get reflashed.

You're assuming that people is evil from start but it's your right and this is not the place to discuss this but, as I said, I don't need to have the binary code to make my own ir2bt.
Anyway, as Bruce said he won't do it, I'll respect that and won't touch the subject again.

I cant help but feel a little dissapointed that you are releasing "new" units for sale, however all those customers whom have allready purchased the unit are having to wait until you develop a system to deal with the returns. I live in the UK and as it stands will not see my unit for a few weeks I presume, and I have the added cost of sending the unit back to you. Is there no way the unit can be programmed without sending it back to you? How long will it be before you have in place a procedure for returning faulty units back?

murdoch wrote:

I cant help but feel a little dissapointed that you are releasing "new" units for sale, however all those customers whom have allready purchased the unit are having to wait until you develop a system to deal with the returns. I live in the UK and as it stands will not see my unit for a few weeks I presume, and I have the added cost of sending the unit back to you. Is there no way the unit can be programmed without sending it back to you? How long will it be before you have in place a procedure for returning faulty units back?

It's already been said over and over again that there's no way to program the unit yourself. Just read the various replies on this very page to see how complex an issue it would be for the average user. I'm sure it'll only be a matter of days(if that) before the details of the exchange program are sorted.

EDIt: I'm in the uk too btw. I'm sure I can cope with using the ps3 controller for a couple of weeks. At last we will also know that after the exchange that we'll be left with a unit that is unlikely EVER to need updating again.

Alright. So, it appears that Sony probably did disable this device, although we do not know if it was done purposefully, or not. I suspect that it was not an accident. So before I send in my IR2BT for flashing I want to know if you can guarantee that Sony is not going to disable it again with the next firmware release. Are you really able to prevent them from doing so? If so great -- if not I am not going to waste my time dealing with this every few months. I am in no way frustrated with Bruce or IR2BT -- only Sony. If they broke the device unwittingly by re-writing the BT stack than no biggie, but if they have decided to knock off certain BT devices for arbitrary reasons there isn't much we can do to prevent this in the future...

Bruce ..

I am guessing you need to get new units out before dealing with returns/updates as you have an investment in parts and need to recoup those cost before dealing with fixings Sony's screw up but do you have a timeframe in mind ? I have to keep reminding my self "don't do the upgrade ..don't do the upgrade "

Quote:

I am guessing you need to get new units out before dealing with returns/updates as you have an investment in parts and need to recoup those cost before dealing with fixings Sony's screw up but do you have a timeframe in mind ? I have to keep reminding my self "don't do the upgrade ..don't do the upgrade "

Just disable the internet connection on the ps3-that's all I did. No more update nags. The web browser kind of sucked, and I never managed to get media streaming working right anyway, so there's no real point in having it on without the newest firmware.